Hello everyone, Thanks for the updates about something you already discussed in the ZUC meetings (which I hope to attend this summer). Sorry for dredging up the past. I really like the idea of ZineWiki as the Union Catalog with infoboxes as the Authority Control. I thought this was, perhaps, where Jenna was going with the infoboxes. However, it sounds like there are 2 lines of thinking that need to be reconciled (quoting Allison because it was great): We've talked about ZineWiki in the context of two conversations: - Authority control for zine titles and zinesters (ZineWiki article URL becomes the URI) - ZineWiki as the union catalog. In this approach, we've talked about using infoboxes for structured/linked data a la wikidata, and using categories or a similar construct for holdings information. I think we might be bumping up against a technology question: Can ZineWiki do infoboxes and can these infoboxes be managed (or at least collected) on the backend? -If so, we have an Authority File! -If not, we might need to have a more traditional wiki structure: Author Pages and Zine Title Pages (with links in between), and these are the Authorities. Also, I see a lot of “Other” Pages on Zine Wiki, neither Author nor Zine title. That might need to be considered in this brave new Zine Authorities world. Beyond the Authority question, I’m not seeing exactly where zine metadata goes on Zine Wiki unless we agree to some entry standards on Zine Pages. Many Zine Pages have all this wonderful narrative description that I wouldn’t want to overlay with the more technical description of a zine catalog record. The two types of data could share a page. Or, we simply attach holding information to Zine Pages (which could be links to “Zine Library Pages” on ZineWiki), and keep our zine bibliographic data in our individual catalogs. Jenna had initially asked for help with an XML export, but now I see that we need to figure out this structure thing first. As a cataloger, I see lots of possibilities, but I probably need to follow rules. I think I’ve wrapped my brain around that, I’m sorry for being so out of the loop. Thanks everyone! Elissah Becknell Librarian & Instructor Minneapolis Community & Technical College Library 1501 Hennepin Avenue/Minneapolis, MN 55403 612-200-5334 elissah.becknell@minneapolis.edu<mailto:elissah.becknell@minneapolis.edu> From: Milo [mailto:milo@qzap.org] Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 4:02 PM To: Allison Jai O'Dell <ajodell@gmail.com>; Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu> Cc: Elissah Becknell <Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu>; dan10things@gmail.com Subject: Re: ZineWiki Update I'm all for low-hanging fruit and egalitarinism. :-) I've also been poking a bit a the infobox notion, and it seems like they can also be created/controlled locally by templates. I haven't yet figured out of those templates are linked or centrally managed by Wikipedia or if they can be created and maintained locally. I just don't understand the MediaWiki file structure. Anyway, if the latter is the case then it seems like something totally manageable without worrying about Wikipedians. -- Milo Miller Co-Founder the Queer Zine Archive Project http://www.qzap.org milo@qzap.org<mailto:milo@qzap.org> On 5/28/16 2:48 PM, Allison Jai O'Dell wrote: Yes, we talked (and worried!) about it. Your summary is accurate, Jenna. I wonder if we could bring the conversation back to our use cases. Linked data facilitates two things: semi-easier data integration and SEO. But we *still* need a front-end union catalog for discovering zines across collections. We've talked about ZineWiki in the context of two conversations: - Authority control for zine titles and zinesters (ZineWiki article URL becomes the URI) - ZineWiki as the union catalog. In this approach, we've talked about using infoboxes for structured/linked data a la wikidata, and using categories or a similar construct for holdings information. Now, I said let's talk about our user stories because we could abandon/postpone the linked data aspect and still achieve a union catalog through ZineWiki. We're all busy, and this seems like low-hanging fruit while still being egalitarian and envelope-pushing in terms of cooperative cataloging / mutual metadata creation. Thoughts? Allison On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu<mailto:jfreedma@barnard.edu>> wrote: Hey Elissah, I think we talked about that very thing but worried that Wikipedians would reject most zine/zinester entries. I know Alex Wrekk had a hard time getting her entry to stand, and she's one of America's best known (i.e., "notable") zine makers. Does anyone see a workaround for this or another way into DBpedia??? Jenna Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu<http://zines.barnard.edu> | @barnlib<http://twitter.com/barnlib> | https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me she, her On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Elissah Becknell <Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu<mailto:Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu>> wrote: Hello Jenna, Not to throw a wrench in your info boxes plans, but I wonder if we should consider an alternative? Wikipedia info boxes are stored as linked data in DBpedia. If we figured our a way to create the infrastructure on the back end of Zinewiki/Wikimedia, we could harvest Wikipedia infoboxes from DBpedia. Like your Mimi Nguyen example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_Thi_Nguyen Here is an article about the process of harvesting infobox data: Mohamed Morsey, Jens Lehmann, Sören Auer, Claus Stadler, Sebastian Hellmann, (2012) "DBpedia and the live extraction of structured data from Wikipedia", Program: electronic library and information systems, Vol. 46 Iss: 2, pp.157 – 181 <http://jens-lehmann.org/files/2012/program_el_dbpedia_live.pdf> I was going to spend some time looking into this next week. I'm on a much needed vacation this week. http://wiki.dbpedia.org/about I'm wondering what other Zine Union Catalog people this of this? Creating this linkage is a very semantic web thing to do. It's also work. And, honestly, I don't know how to create more structured data (infoboxes) without first creating them in Wikipedia. I don't know what it would take to make Zinewiki a hub for DBpedia to harvest structured data. If we don't do this linked data approach, I completely understand. I just thought I would put it out there to the group. Cheers! Elissah ________________________________________ From: Dan Halligan <dan10things@gmail.com<mailto:dan10things@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 12:42:39 PM To: Jenna Freedman Cc: Allison Jai O'Dell; Milo; Elissah Becknell Subject: Re: ZineWiki Update I think we need to work on ZineWiki's help pages, Wikis have gotten a lot more robust since they were written and also some of the files linked in them are broken. I can look into it in a few weeks, but I'm doing press and promotions for the NW Pinball & Arcade Show and it's in 2 weekends, my life is insanely busy right now. I updated the main page to say that ZineWiki is up and running well again and people should resume editing and article creation. In June I think we should go back to featuring a new zine every month as the lead article so it starts looking different and updated when people visit. On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu<mailto:jfreedma@barnard.edu>> wrote: > Sorry--doing some research after the fact. We'll look into it the help > pages! > > Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian > LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu<http://zines.barnard.edu> | @barnlib | > https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me > she, her > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu<mailto:jfreedma@barnard.edu>> > wrote: >> >> Do any of you know if we need to do anything to ZineWiki to get it to >> render info boxes? >> >> We tried adding one to the Mimi Nguyen entry to no avail. >> >> Jenna >> >> Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian >> LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu<http://zines.barnard.edu> | @barnlib | >> https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me >> she, her >> >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Dan Halligan <dan10things@gmail.com<mailto:dan10things@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Oh, one other problem ZineWiki has experienced in the last year is a >>> bot registering user after user continuously. Which has led to a >>> massive fake userbase wasting serve space and leads to spam entries. >>> If it's possible set up user registration to deter that, it would be >>> awesome. If you look log of recent changes you will see what I mean, >>> every 3-4 minutes a new fake user is being created: >>> http://zinewiki.com/Special:RecentChanges >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Allison Jai O'Dell <ajodell@gmail.com<mailto:ajodell@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> > Hooray for all of this! I can take over as admin, unless you want the >>> > fun >>> > of it, Milo! Working towards a May 30 writing deadline, so I will jump >>> > in >>> > after that. >>> > >>> > >>> > Allison >>> > >>> > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu<mailto:jfreedma@barnard.edu>> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> That is great happy wonderful news!!! >>> >> >>> >> My student intern started today, and I'm going to have them work on >>> >> info >>> >> boxes. My next step might be figuring out an XML export. I could use >>> >> help >>> >> from Allison or Elissah maybe, advising me how to ask for it and of >>> >> which >>> >> department. (I can also ask Billey for help on the "who" question.") >>> >> >>> >> Jenna >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian >>> >> LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu<http://zines.barnard.edu> | @barnlib | >>> >> https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me >>> >> she, her >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Milo <milo@qzap.org<mailto:milo@qzap.org>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I wanted to send out a "good news everyone!" update about ZineWiki. >>> >>> >>> >>> Over the weekend Denny sent the keys to the castle and his blessings, >>> >>> so >>> >>> we now have the ability to work directly on the ZW site. Currently >>> >>> it's >>> >>> being hosted at Hurricane Electric, and Jerianne is paying for the >>> >>> hosting. >>> >>> It is my understanding that she would be willing to keep doing so for >>> >>> the >>> >>> time being. The domain itself (zinewiki.com<http://zinewiki.com>) is registered through >>> >>> Hover.com(Tucows) and registration renews in August. Currently she >>> >>> is >>> >>> renewing it annually, but we certainly could extend it to 2 or 5 >>> >>> years. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, last night, with Eric's help and guidance, I was able to >>> >>> repair >>> >>> the broken table in the database, so the search function is now >>> >>> working, and >>> >>> folks should be able to add pages at will. We were also able to make >>> >>> a >>> >>> backup of the site and of the database (900mb and 1.3gb >>> >>> respectively,) and >>> >>> I've slurped copies down to a local copy at work. >>> >>> >>> >>> So that's where we're at. Some next questions to answer: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1) Allison, are you still interested in taking over as the main >>> >>> admin? >>> >>> If so, I'll email you all the login info. >>> >>> 2) In the short term we're probably fine keeping the site where it >>> >>> is, >>> >>> but in the long run do we want to move it to Dan's server? >>> >>> 3) Now that we have a backup, we should probably update the MediaWiki >>> >>> software. I'm not familiar with HE's setup, so I don't know what >>> >>> versions of >>> >>> everything that it's running, but we can find out. >>> >>> 4) Obvs, but world domination and pizza, not necessarily in that >>> >>> order. >>> >>> >>> >>> xoxoMilo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Milo Miller >>> >>> Co-Founder >>> >>> the Queer Zine Archive Project >>> >>> http://www.qzap.org >>> >>> milo@qzap.org<mailto:milo@qzap.org> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >> >

Hey pals, Some of this convo is beyond my expertise. I hope we can talk it out more though on the call on Saturday. Is everyone in for that? Allison, I'll text you a reminder! Jenna Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu | @barnlib <http://twitter.com/barnlib> | https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me she, her <http://zines.barnard.edu> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Elissah Becknell < Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > Thanks for the updates about something you already discussed in the ZUC > meetings (which I hope to attend this summer). Sorry for dredging up the > past. > > > > I really like the idea of ZineWiki as the Union Catalog with infoboxes as > the Authority Control. I thought this was, perhaps, where Jenna was going > with the infoboxes. > > > > However, it sounds like there are 2 lines of thinking that need to be > reconciled (quoting Allison because it was great): > > > > We've talked about ZineWiki in the context of two conversations: > > - Authority control for zine titles and zinesters (ZineWiki article URL > becomes the URI) > > - ZineWiki *as* the union catalog. In this approach, we've talked about > using infoboxes for structured/linked data a la wikidata, and using > categories or a similar construct for holdings information. > > > > I think we might be bumping up against a technology question: Can ZineWiki > do infoboxes and can these infoboxes be managed (or at least collected) on > the backend? > > -If so, we have an Authority File! > > -If not, we might need to have a more traditional wiki structure: Author > Pages and Zine Title Pages (with links in between), and these are the > Authorities. Also, I see a lot of “Other” Pages on Zine Wiki, neither > Author nor Zine title. That might need to be considered in this brave new > Zine Authorities world. > > > > Beyond the Authority question, I’m not seeing exactly where zine metadata > goes on Zine Wiki unless we agree to some entry standards on Zine Pages. > Many Zine Pages have all this wonderful narrative description that I > wouldn’t want to overlay with the more technical description of a zine > catalog record. The two types of data could share a page. Or, we simply > attach holding information to Zine Pages (which could be links to “Zine > Library Pages” on ZineWiki), and keep our zine bibliographic data in our > individual catalogs. > > > > Jenna had initially asked for help with an XML export, but now I see that > we need to figure out this structure thing first. As a cataloger, I see > lots of possibilities, but I probably need to follow rules. > > > > I think I’ve wrapped my brain around that, I’m sorry for being so out of > the loop. > > > > Thanks everyone! > > Elissah Becknell > > Librarian & Instructor > > Minneapolis Community & Technical College Library > > 1501 Hennepin Avenue/Minneapolis, MN 55403 > > 612-200-5334 > > elissah.becknell@minneapolis.edu > > > > *From:* Milo [mailto:milo@qzap.org] > *Sent:* Saturday, May 28, 2016 4:02 PM > *To:* Allison Jai O'Dell <ajodell@gmail.com>; Jenna Freedman < > jfreedma@barnard.edu> > *Cc:* Elissah Becknell <Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu>; > dan10things@gmail.com > *Subject:* Re: ZineWiki Update > > > > I'm all for low-hanging fruit and egalitarinism. :-) > I've also been poking a bit a the infobox notion, and it seems like they > can also be created/controlled locally by templates. I haven't yet figured > out of those templates are linked or centrally managed by Wikipedia or if > they can be created and maintained locally. I just don't understand the > MediaWiki file structure. Anyway, if the latter is the case then it seems > like something totally manageable without worrying about Wikipedians. > > > > -- > > Milo Miller > > Co-Founder > > the Queer Zine Archive Project > > http://www.qzap.org > > milo@qzap.org > > On 5/28/16 2:48 PM, Allison Jai O'Dell wrote: > > Yes, we talked (and worried!) about it. Your summary is accurate, Jenna. > > > > I wonder if we could bring the conversation back to our use cases. Linked > data facilitates two things: semi-easier data integration and SEO. But we > *still* need a front-end union catalog for discovering zines across > collections. > > > > We've talked about ZineWiki in the context of two conversations: > > - Authority control for zine titles and zinesters (ZineWiki article URL > becomes the URI) > > - ZineWiki *as* the union catalog. In this approach, we've talked about > using infoboxes for structured/linked data a la wikidata, and using > categories or a similar construct for holdings information. > > > > Now, I said let's talk about our user stories because we could > abandon/postpone the linked data aspect and still achieve a union catalog > through ZineWiki. We're all busy, and this seems like low-hanging fruit > while still being egalitarian and envelope-pushing in terms of cooperative > cataloging / mutual metadata creation. > > > > Thoughts? > > Allison > > > > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu> > wrote: > > Hey Elissah, > > I *think* we talked about that very thing but worried that Wikipedians > would reject most zine/zinester entries. I know Alex Wrekk had a hard time > getting her entry to stand, and she's one of America's best known (i.e., > "notable") zine makers. Does anyone see a workaround for this or another > way into DBpedia??? > > Jenna > > > Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian > LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu | @barnlib <http://twitter.com/barnlib> | > https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me > > she, her > > > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Elissah Becknell < > Elissah.Becknell@minneapolis.edu> wrote: > > > Hello Jenna, > > Not to throw a wrench in your info boxes plans, but I wonder if we should > consider an alternative? > > Wikipedia info boxes are stored as linked data in DBpedia. If we figured > our a way to create the infrastructure on the back end of > Zinewiki/Wikimedia, we could harvest Wikipedia infoboxes from DBpedia. > > Like your Mimi Nguyen example: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimi_Thi_Nguyen > > Here is an article about the process of harvesting infobox data: > Mohamed Morsey, Jens Lehmann, Sören Auer, Claus Stadler, Sebastian > Hellmann, (2012) "DBpedia and the live extraction of structured data from > Wikipedia", Program: electronic library and information systems, Vol. 46 > Iss: 2, pp.157 – 181 < > http://jens-lehmann.org/files/2012/program_el_dbpedia_live.pdf> > > I was going to spend some time looking into this next week. I'm on a much > needed vacation this week. > > http://wiki.dbpedia.org/about > > I'm wondering what other Zine Union Catalog people this of this? Creating > this linkage is a very semantic web thing to do. It's also work. And, > honestly, I don't know how to create more structured data (infoboxes) > without first creating them in Wikipedia. I don't know what it would take > to make Zinewiki a hub for DBpedia to harvest structured data. > > If we don't do this linked data approach, I completely understand. I just > thought I would put it out there to the group. > > Cheers! > Elissah > ________________________________________ > From: Dan Halligan <dan10things@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 12:42:39 PM > To: Jenna Freedman > Cc: Allison Jai O'Dell; Milo; Elissah Becknell > Subject: Re: ZineWiki Update > > > I think we need to work on ZineWiki's help pages, Wikis have gotten a > lot more robust since they were written and also some of the files > linked in them are broken. I can look into it in a few weeks, but I'm > doing press and promotions for the NW Pinball & Arcade Show and it's > in 2 weekends, my life is insanely busy right now. I updated the main > page to say that ZineWiki is up and running well again and people > should resume editing and article creation. > > In June I think we should go back to featuring a new zine every month > as the lead article so it starts looking different and updated when > people visit. > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu> > wrote: > > Sorry--doing some research after the fact. We'll look into it the help > > pages! > > > > Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian > > LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu | @barnlib | > > https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me > > she, her > > > > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Jenna Freedman <jfreedma@barnard.edu> > > wrote: > >> > >> Do any of you know if we need to do anything to ZineWiki to get it to > >> render info boxes? > >> > >> We tried adding one to the Mimi Nguyen entry to no avail. > >> > >> Jenna > >> > >> Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine Librarian > >> LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu | @barnlib | > >> https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me > >> she, her > >> > >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Dan Halligan <dan10things@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Oh, one other problem ZineWiki has experienced in the last year is a > >>> bot registering user after user continuously. Which has led to a > >>> massive fake userbase wasting serve space and leads to spam entries. > >>> If it's possible set up user registration to deter that, it would be > >>> awesome. If you look log of recent changes you will see what I mean, > >>> every 3-4 minutes a new fake user is being created: > >>> http://zinewiki.com/Special:RecentChanges > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Allison Jai O'Dell < > ajodell@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > Hooray for all of this! I can take over as admin, unless you want > the > >>> > fun > >>> > of it, Milo! Working towards a May 30 writing deadline, so I will > jump > >>> > in > >>> > after that. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Allison > >>> > > >>> > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Jenna Freedman < > jfreedma@barnard.edu> > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> That is great happy wonderful news!!! > >>> >> > >>> >> My student intern started today, and I'm going to have them work on > >>> >> info > >>> >> boxes. My next step might be figuring out an XML export. I could use > >>> >> help > >>> >> from Allison or Elissah maybe, advising me how to ask for it and of > >>> >> which > >>> >> department. (I can also ask Billey for help on the "who" question.") > >>> >> > >>> >> Jenna > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> Jenna Freedman | Associate Director of Communications & Zine > Librarian > >>> >> LeFrak 111 | zines.barnard.edu | @barnlib | > >>> >> https://jennafreedman.youcanbook.me > >>> >> she, her > >>> >> > >>> >> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Milo <milo@qzap.org> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Hi All, > >>> >>> I wanted to send out a "good news everyone!" update about ZineWiki. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Over the weekend Denny sent the keys to the castle and his > blessings, > >>> >>> so > >>> >>> we now have the ability to work directly on the ZW site. Currently > >>> >>> it's > >>> >>> being hosted at Hurricane Electric, and Jerianne is paying for the > >>> >>> hosting. > >>> >>> It is my understanding that she would be willing to keep doing so > for > >>> >>> the > >>> >>> time being. The domain itself (zinewiki.com) is registered > through > >>> >>> Hover.com(Tucows) and registration renews in August. Currently she > >>> >>> is > >>> >>> renewing it annually, but we certainly could extend it to 2 or 5 > >>> >>> years. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Anyway, last night, with Eric's help and guidance, I was able to > >>> >>> repair > >>> >>> the broken table in the database, so the search function is now > >>> >>> working, and > >>> >>> folks should be able to add pages at will. We were also able to > make > >>> >>> a > >>> >>> backup of the site and of the database (900mb and 1.3gb > >>> >>> respectively,) and > >>> >>> I've slurped copies down to a local copy at work. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> So that's where we're at. Some next questions to answer: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> 1) Allison, are you still interested in taking over as the main > >>> >>> admin? > >>> >>> If so, I'll email you all the login info. > >>> >>> 2) In the short term we're probably fine keeping the site where it > >>> >>> is, > >>> >>> but in the long run do we want to move it to Dan's server? > >>> >>> 3) Now that we have a backup, we should probably update the > MediaWiki > >>> >>> software. I'm not familiar with HE's setup, so I don't know what > >>> >>> versions of > >>> >>> everything that it's running, but we can find out. > >>> >>> 4) Obvs, but world domination and pizza, not necessarily in that > >>> >>> order. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> xoxoMilo > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> -- > >>> >>> Milo Miller > >>> >>> Co-Founder > >>> >>> the Queer Zine Archive Project > >>> >>> http://www.qzap.org > >>> >>> milo@qzap.org > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >